WG9 STANDARD
P1544
TRANSIT
COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACE PROFILES FOR RAIL APPLICATIONS
LTK Engineering Services
100 West Butler Avenue
Ambler, PA 19002
(215) 542-0700
Combined
Agenda and Minutes
Attendees:
Name |
Company |
Phone |
E-Mail |
Ken Kelsey |
Adtranz |
(412) 655-5311 |
|
Pierre Zuber |
Adtranz |
(412) 655-5479 |
|
Dave Phelps |
APTA |
(202) 898-4085 |
|
Jerry Graham |
ARINC |
(410) 266-4086 |
|
Mike Izbicki |
ARINC |
(603) 493-0536 |
|
Karl Berger |
Berger Engineering |
(703) 803-7917 |
|
Christian Girard |
Bombardier |
(450) 441-2020 |
|
Venkat Pindiprolu |
FTA |
(202) 366-8061 |
|
Fred Woolsey |
LTK |
(215) 641-8865 |
|
Jim Lyke |
LTK |
(215) 641-8871 |
|
Greg Neff |
Microsym |
(416)
293-8263 |
|
John Squitieri |
NJ Transit |
(973) 491-8265 |
|
Mark Hooley |
NJ Transit |
(201) 955-5993 |
|
Ramdane Benferhat |
NYCT |
(718) 694-4433 |
|
Peter Lutz |
Siemens |
+49 91 31 728254 |
|
Chris Holliday |
STV |
(215) 832-3520 |
|
Tom McGean |
TJMPE |
(757)
789-5166 |
10:00-10:15 AM
·
Introductions,
meeting purpose
10:15-10:45 AM
·
Old
business (action items from last meeting)
o
Contact
Tom Sullivan regarding LonWorld documents online (Fred Woolsey)- According to
Tom Sullivan, documents are not allowed to be published on the RTVISC web site.
Greg
Neff indicated, however, that it is allowable to link to a paper on a
presenter’s own web site.
o
Send
copy of IEEE “cleanroom” gateway proposal to Isabelle Cornelus (Fred Woolsey)-
Done.
o
ALSTOM
to determine the extent to which they can cooperate with the “cleanroom”
implementation on Comet 5 (Isabelle Cornelus).
o
Make
UIC 556 available on WG9 FTP site (Fred Woolsey)- Done.
o
Put
IEEE WG9 discussion group back online (Fred Woolsey)- Done.
o
Make
comments document available online (Fred Woolsey)- Done.
o
E-mail
WG9 list with notification that info is online (Fred Woolsey)- Done.
o
Determine
suitability of data elements from TCN standpoint (Pierre Zuber).
Pierre
Zuber recommended that final assessment of the data elements be deferred until
the NJ Transit data elements are defined.
Greg
Neff brought up the discrepancy between the IEEE 1475 tractive element
definition and the UIC 556 definition.
This led to a discussion of compatibility between the data elements
under development and the existing IEEE standards. Dave Phelps pointed out that any standard represents the group’s
understanding of best practice at the time of development, and that changes in
technology occur so rapidly that changes are to be expected.
o
Determine
suitability of data elements from LonMark standpoint (Jeremy Roberts).
10:45 AM-12:00 PM
·
Discussion
of Recent Developments
o
NJ
Transit Comet 5-ALP-46 WTB interoperability and its impact on/relevance to IEEE
1544- Fred Woolsey, Tom McGean, Chris Holliday
Chris
Holliday provided an overview of the NJ Transit vehicle programs. Essentially, trainline data elements will be
taken from UIC 556, with US-specific data elements transmitted using the
reserve areas of the UIC telegrams. The
result of this development will be made available in the form of
interoperability documentation.
NJ
Transit feels it is highly desirable for the IEEE to be involved in reviewing
the developing data elements; however, the NJ Transit programs schedule provide
some constraints on the time available for IEEE involvement.
Tom
McGean pointed out that the IEEE process provides some additional
constraints. Pierre Zuber offered the
suggestion that the NJ Transit work be taken as the initial standard, with
enough flexibility to allow changes for those elements that are relevant only
to NJT. Tom McGean pointed out again
that an IEEE standard is a consensus standard requiring approval, and that all
negative ballots must be considered and addressed. NJ Transit expressed their desire to work with the IEEE to
facilitate development of this consensus standard.
Venkat
Pindiprolu asked NJ Transit for their understanding and definition of
interoperability. NJ Transit stated
that the primary concern was interoperability and interchangeability of
vehicles within trainsets. Tom McGean
pointed out that this agrees with the direction WG9 has taken.
There
was then some discussion of work that has already been done by the working
group, in particular the focus on those data elements needed for train
operation.
Tom
McGean stressed the importance of looking at the work done by Adtranz and
comparing it with the work already done by this working group. NJ Transit emphasized that any work done was
done with IEEE compliance in view.
Taking the approach of using UIC 556 as the basis for the flow down to
LonWorks appears to be the simpler approach.
Greg
Neff raised the question regarding the approach to data element development and
the data definition flow from TCN to LonWorks.
Fred Woolsey moved that the working group use IEEE 1473 together with
UIC 556, modified for North American practice, as the basis for data element
development, and that this should be the basis for the flow of data from WTB to
LonWorks. Dave Phelps raised a
discussion point, however, that the motion should not ignore work done on IEEE
1475 and R142. The motion was recast as
follows:
Moved:
“The working group shall use IEEE 1473 together with UIC 556, modified for
North American practice, as the basis for data element development, and this
shall be the basis for the flow of data between WTB and LonWorks. In addition, the work shall consider
pre-existing standards, including IEEE 1475, in data element development, and
shall identify discrepancies wherever practical. The work of WG9 will continue to focus on process data
interoperability between basic operating units.”
The
motion was voted on as written and passed unanimously.
(Lunch)
Fred
Woolsey presented an overview of the Adtranz network architecture and remote
diagnostic system.
1:00-3:00 PM
o
Cleanroom
implementation of TCN-Lon gateway on Comet 5-ALP-46- Fred Woolsey, Tom McGean,
Jerry Graham
Tom
McGean explained that the NJ Transit program does not fulfill two of the
original goals of the gateway proposal: to provide a direct hardware gateway
between WTB and LonWorks, and to have a firm unfamiliar with TCN do the TCN
implementation. He then explained that
Jerry Graham of ARINC would be heading WG1, which will be taking a fresh look
at networking protocols.
Tom
McGean asked NJ Transit for ideas on how the IEEE could help their
programs. In particular, it was
suggested that a list of deliverables and design reviews, with scheduled dates,
would be useful in coordinating IEEE participation. NJ Transit took action to provide this schedule.
Action:
NJ Transit to provide schedule to facilitate IEEE participation.
Greg
Neff suggested that it would be beneficial to work along with Adtranz and
ALSTOM rather than waiting for them to produce final documents. He also raised the concern that LonMark may
be directing ALSTOM differently than decided at this meeting.
Action:
Fred Woolsey to contact Jeremy Roberts to inform him of the direction taken in
the motion voted on (above).
There
was additional discussion of the hardware implementation of the gateway. It was agreed that the NJ Transit Comet V
program was not necessarily the proper basis for this.
Tom
McGean raised the question of what IEEE WG1 could do to help make TCN an open
standard in the sense that suppliers in North America have familiarity with
it. This was discussed at length.
Finally,
it was agreed that the gateway implementation on NJ Transit would be useful as
a basis for developing a performance specification for a standard gateway, but
would not fulfill the original goals of the cleanroom proposal.
Fred
Woolsey stated that there was some concern over statements made concerning the
openness of the NJ Transit implementation, and clarified that the documentation
to be provided to NJ Transit is intended to be sufficient to allow any other
carbuilder to provide equipment interoperable with the equipment now being
procured. It was finally agreed that,
between IEEE 1544 (which will incorporate the NJ Transit information) and 1473,
there will be enough information in the standards to make the implementation
open.
There
was discussion of doing a single-step gateway implementation on NJ Transit
equipment, perhaps on Comet II overhaul cars.
NJ Transit was open to this and stated that they would discuss this
possibility internally.
Action:
Jerry Graham and Fred Woolsey to collaborate on developing a scope of work and
estimated cost for a one-step gateway implementation on NJ Transit equipment as
a test bed (due COB 1/23/01). Send to
Dave Phelps and Venkat Pindiprolu.
Action:
NJ Transit to inform the working group regarding possibility of using NJ
Transit equipment for single-step gateway reference implementation.
Venkat
Pindiprolu requested a two-page write-up describing this proposal.
Action:
Tom McGean to provide a write-up for the “new” gateway proposal.
o
NJ
Transit Comet 5-ALP-46 TWC interoperability- Fred Woolsey, Tom McGean
Tom
McGean requested Adtranz to make a presentation at the next full committee
meeting of their NJ Transit TWC proposal.
Action:
Adtranz to determine whether they can make a presentation at the RTVISC
meeting.
o
New
working group for TWC protocol- Tom McGean
This
will be discussed at the RTVISC meeting as well.
o
LonMark
Profile developments- Greg Neff, Jeremy Roberts, Jim Lyke, Tom Sullivan (discussed
previously)
o
ALSTOM
progress on LonMark interoperability- Isabelle Cornelus (not discussed)
(The following section was not
covered)======================
·
Data Element Review
o
Database review- Fred Woolsey
o
Doors- Isabelle Cornelus
o
Propulsion- Dave Phelps, Pierre Zuber
o
Others- All
====================================================
3:00-4:15 PM
·
Next activities
o
Additional
review action and assignment of responsibility- Fred Woolsey, Tom McGean
Action:
Fred Woolsey to update draft list of data elements in IEEE draft standard
format and make available by 1/31/01.
Venkat Pindiprolu suggested that “safety critical” data
elements be identified as such.
Tom McGean stressed the importance of coordinating work
with Adtranz and ALSTOM to ensure meaningful participation by the IEEE with the
NJ Transit work. For this to happen,
there needs to be open sharing of information as it develops.
o
Draft
standard- Fred Woolsey, Tom McGean
It was
agreed that the data element information should be put in the form of a draft
standard.
o
Entering
elements in ITS data registry- Tom McGean, Fred Woolsey
It was
agreed that this needed to be done, but a good deal further down the road.
o
Diagnostic
data elements
Dave
Phelps stated that the proper place for generating these elements is WG3. If WG3 defines the need for an element and
that element already exists, they can use it.
If it does not exist, it would be created and WG9 would “add it to the
list.” WG9 would be the repository for
these elements.
o
Intra-car
interoperability (see above)
o
Schedule-
Fred Woolsey, Tom McGean
4:15-5:30 PM
·
Wrap-up
·
New
Business
·
Meeting
Time and Place, next meeting
Wednesday,
March 14, 2001
9:00 AM
APTA Headquarters
Washington, DC
·
Adjourn